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Hey, good day, everybody. Welcome to the Investor Relations Podcast. Today, we're gonna talk to a guy whose shirt says this, I buy castles in Spain. How cool is that? Mike, welcome to the Investor Relations Podcast.
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It's a pleasure. Thanks, for having me on, Josh.
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Yeah, you got it. Alright, so it… you know, your shirt says it all, you buy castles in Spain. Kind of walk us through, how does one get into the world of buying castles in Spain?
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Very long process.
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You know, to keep it short, you know, once you're on Spanish time.
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You know, the rest of the world thinks the United States is nuts, because we work 80, 100 hours a day, and we… like, okay, this, this, this, let's go, let's go, let's go, and they start laughing at you in Spain. It's like, wait a minute, you know, we're on… holiday for the rest of the month, and, you know, well, wait a minute, it's siesta time, and you learn very quickly that slow things down.
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Get it right, But it took us, you know, 2 or 3 years to get all the regulations, all the… just how things are done differently in… and… I guess they'd be upset with me in the Barcelona area if I say invest in Spain, because it's… I invest in Catalonia.
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and not Spain, but, you know, it's all the same, but we're on the coast of the Rava region in Spain, but it's… it is a very different, just… I think whether you go Spain, other different countries.
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It's just very, very important to know how to do things so you don't get in trouble.
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For sure. Oh, yeah. We were just saying, you know, like, you don't want to get in trouble in the world of raising capital, or deploying capital, or buying stuff, and you know, I say, I don't look good in orange, so that's, you know, I don't want to go down that route.
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And, you know, so… let's talk about this. Let's go through a little bit of your journey. You know, you live in Arizona now, you know, how does one go from living in Arizona to buying castles on the coast over there?
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Yeah, well, I'm either blessed, or done some things right, or… I think what it is is surrounding yourself with the correct people. Networking. I always tell new investors.
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I wouldn't be 90% of where I am if it wasn't for networking and getting to know people.
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Started out small town in Indiana.
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Bought a fourplex, then bought a house, then bought more houses.
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Took a break, was an airline pilot.
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And then, fast forward to… yeah, I came to Arizona because of some flight training.
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And then I was, like, going, I kind of like palm trees and… And the desert. So, moved out here.
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Fast forward, I've owned and managed around 1,500 units, or 1,500 doors.
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In my lifetime, someone came out and wanted to buy my entire multifamily portfolio.
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It took him 4 times to write the check.
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You know, that was, you know, worth it, you know, where I couldn't say no.
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But then I was like, whoa, what am I gonna do?
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So through networking, I found a… I knew a guy that was in… had 20, 25 years' experience in hotels.
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I said, you know what, I don't want to buy any more multifamily at four and a half caps.
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Talk to me about hotels.
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And that was kind of the beginning of… of this relationship. We've partnered on several hotels. He had an apartment in Spain for 5 years.
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And he kept saying, you need to come over here.
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And look at these things. And I'm like, oh, you know, I'm busy, you know, all this sort of stuff. And he goes, get your ass over here.
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Me too.
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It took me to see this castle.
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And I'm all going, why are you showing me this, man? You know, I mean, it's like going, we can't afford this.
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And he started laughing, he goes, how much do you think this is? It's a 19-room castle, built in the 1300s, been renovated, high-end boutique, 43 acres.
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And I said, I don't know, what, 20, 25 million, you know, to start?
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And he just smiled, and he goes, how about 2.4?
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Wow.
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And I'm like, oh… Okay, and he goes, this is the labor, this is this, this is how you do it.
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And then I was like, why am I buying hotels in the United States at, you know… So that was… that was basically… and now, you know, I bought an apartment over there, and now I'm all into Spain. It's just a beautiful place. Barcelona area.
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Barcelona. Yeah, you have to be a little bit more specific, or they'll get mad at you over there.
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They will.
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Yeah. Okay, so, as you go through your history, 1,500 doors, you got approached 4 different times, you finally said yes, you got the offer you can't refuse, right? And you said yes. But how old were you when that offer came?
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How old?
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Yeah, how old were you?
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Oh, I… 46.
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Okay. So, it was kind of like, okay, what am I gonna do with my life? And, you know, 46 years old, cashing out, you know, you wanted some place or somewhere to go, or something to do.
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Is that right?
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Exactly.
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What… what?
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Exactly.
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What happens on the other end of an exit before you started getting antsy and started going, man, I need to go find something else? What were you doing in the meantime?
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Playing golf, and You know, I was happy. I did not want to sell my multifamily. I had a great team.
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On-site managers, maintenance, the whole thing, and I played golf and was fat and happy.
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And these guys had this very large 1031, I think they're out of Idaho.
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Yeah.
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Or Iowa, one of those I states.
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And… The fourth time, they said, well, hey, we're in Phoenix, we stopped by one of your properties. I'm like, you did, huh?
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You know, thanks for letting me know. And he goes, look, I want to take you out to breakfast.
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I'm like, okay, you know, I'm still gonna say no. It was the same group that I said no to 3 other times.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And this is the God's honest truth. We went to IHOP. They took me out to IHOP.
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Fancy.
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Fancy. It went all out. People, you know.
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They wrote a number on a napkin, so over pancakes and coffee, they wrote a number on the napkin, and he handed it to me, and I'm, like, going.
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Crap. You know, I'm like, oh my god.
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Yeah.
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Yeah, I was like, okay, I never thought I'd see that kind of number, small-town Indiana boy.
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But… then it was like, okay, 1031, what am I gonna do? You know, and then my whole life just kind of… whether it turned upside down or just spun up 100,000 times.
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And that's when I partnered with this guy, with Vic. And I did it very smartly, you know, ladies and gentlemen. When you get into a new asset class, don't just Do not go out and buy a hotel, please.
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Gosh, yeah.
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Please do not do it.
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So very quickly, I said, Vic.
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I have money. I want you to buy me some hotels.
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I don't know anything about it.
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You're gonna teach me, show me everything you know about hotels. I want you to run the hotels.
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And in doing so, I'm going to actually give you a piece of the back end, because I want you to be invested Also.
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So if you are willing to do that, give up a piece of the ownership on the back end.
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Because now they have a piece of the pie, they're held accountable.
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That's how you go into a new asset class, bring on people with decades of experience, and now it's just been… we're rolling.
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Yeah.
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Man, super cool. I love this story, and as we unpack it, there's a few personal questions I want to ask you. So, we see, you're a podcaster yourself. Please give a shout-out to your podcast.
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It's called The Richer Geek.
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The Richer Geek. I like it.
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You know, I'm a big geek, and we all want to get richer, but do it the right way, so it's… and I have a lot of tech people following me, so it kind of… A bunch of tech geeks.
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So, how do you classify as a geek? What do you… what must one do to become a geek, or identify as a geek?
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You know, wow, that could be the question of a lifetime.
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Cause you can geek out on a lot of things. Yeah.
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I think it's just someone who doesn't necessarily take the normal… Path.
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Yep.
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And you can… you can be a geek in real estate, but it's just… it's just all kind of encompassing. It's… it's like, I want… I love… You know, when I got started in real estate, it's like, oh, I'm geeking out on this. It's addictive.
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Yeah, it is. It is. It is.
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So, I think that's kind of the geek, you know? You have the… The geeks that run the world now, you could say that, the people that played chess in high school, and now, you know, they own Three-quarters of the world.
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Oh, man, I'm so glad I was nice to them.
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Yeah.
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Or he was nice to that one guy, right?
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Yeah.
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Now let's play another game. I'm gonna guess what's on the wall, so I'm looking behind you. People might be listening in, so I see a few guitars, but the one that your head just blocked, I see an American flag. I think… I think that there's something in there.
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Yeah, maybe.
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Are we playing hot and cold, or am I allowed to guess, or you wanna…
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Sure, you can guess.
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Okay, so I bet there's an American flag, it looks like, maybe a 3x4 on the wall, looks wood. I bet there's something in there. I bet if it were to be opened up, it probably has something to do with firearms, because your background as a Navy guy?
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Maybe, yeah.
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Okay, are we getting warmer? Yeah. Alright, alright.
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No, you're right, you're right, there is a firearm in there.
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I think there's two. There's two firearms in there.
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Yeah, I bet one is black and rhymes with AR, but, if we're looking at the… No. No?
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Nope, that's… that's in another safe.
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Okay. Awesome.
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But I do have some…
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Go ahead.
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Guitars? Well, you know, because it's an American flag, I wanted to… Of the most… Historic, you know, American firearms, so I have a 1911.
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Nice!
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in there, and then I have a Colt 45, you know, kind of like the cowboy gun.
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Yep.
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And then the officer's 1911, you know, the…
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What year's the 1911?
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Well, it's a newer… it's a custom, so it's a newer version. It's a Dan Wesson…
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Okay.
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So it's more of a…
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It's got the grip safety on the back and big spur hammer.
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Oh, yeah, yeah, it's got that, you know, I mean, it's…
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It's a big gun.
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It's a big gun. Yeah, big kick.
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Awesome, man. Yeah, I'm a fan. Thank you for your service with the Navy, and all you ladies and gentlemen out there who serve, man. Hats off to you guys, love y'all. Now, guitars. Do you geek out in music as well? I see a bunch of guitars hanging on the wall.
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Yeah, I have… My baby's missing because one of my friends begged Me to let him take my baby home, you know, and play it.
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But I, you know, I have probably 9 or 10 guitars.
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And it is one of my stress reliefs.
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You know, ladies and gentlemen, you have to have your time.
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We get so worked up.
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You know, with the economy, interest rates, or this and that, and just business, you know.
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Owning hotels during COVID, you know, things happen, and you have to have that release, and for me to put on, you know, the headset.
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And close my eyes and just… You know, for an hour at the end of the day to unwind, you know.
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Let it rip.
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Yeah. Let it rip.
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I understand.
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Play some Metallica at night.
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Yeah, nice! I went to a Metallica concert. I know that, you know, as people are listening in there, go, what does this have to do with anything? I'll tell you. I went to a Metallica concert in Cincinnati, Ohio, probably… 2002, and we had box seats, I mean, it was amazing. They put on… these old guys were putting on this concert of a lifetime.
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And, you know, I went there with some guys that we've invested in some real estate projects together, but it was… it was so awesome. And the reason I ask this is, in the world of investor relations, a lot of the time, you'll connect with someone that has nothing to do with the… that which you're investing in. Hotels, real estate, whatever. You usually connect over some life This is maybe a strategy that I saw, and I'd love to get your point of it. We connect over music, we connect over, you know.
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I like firearms, and we do a lot of training, I do defensive tactics, so whatever it is, you connect with someone, and then you start going, hey, what do you do? Oh, you invest too? Oh, and then before you know it, you find that that's happened in your life?
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Most of my investors are… from networking outside of any type of investment group or anything, it's… You're on the golf course.
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You're at a dinner, you're at, You know, my wife's business, Christmas party. I mean, they're just outside.
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And, you know, exactly that thing. You know, it's like, it's 10 o'clock on a Tuesday, you know, you're too young to be retired, what do you do?
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Right. You know, and I just smile, you know, and I'm like, here we go.
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And you just do that. It's… but here's the thing, it's just being personable.
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And asking, you know, some people will sit there and be at a dinner meeting or a meetup and not talk.
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And it's like, oh, I had no idea you did this, or… it's… Be personable. Talk, but then shut up.
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And listen.
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Yeah.
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You know, so there's a couple-step process, and most of my investors, it's a golf course, or a… Outside of real estate.
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So, what is the difference? Some of the questions that we were kind of pinging around. So, thank you for bringing that up, because I think it's so true. People do business with people they know, like, and trust, and especially in the world of, like, the direct ask in receiving of capital.
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They… people will sniff out… an experienced LP will sniff out any type of BS, or any type of credibility factor, or red flag, or something like that. So, best just to be honest, be open book.
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And have that conversation. That was my two cents, hopefully it was worth it. When it comes to, you know, raising capital, hotel versus multifamily, talk to us about the differences in strategies of different asset classes, or different, you know, assets within those asset classes.
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That's a great question.
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Multifamily was easy.
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And, you know, hotels in the U.S. are pretty easy.
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Everyone knows multifamily, and a lot of the investors that you… that will invest with you in multifamily, they… Everyone knows someone that's owned at least a single-family rental, or fourplex, or something. It's very, very familiar to them.
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So it was easy for me to raise for multifamily.
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When I got into hotels, it was… it was different, you know, because, again, you listen, and people will tell you. They thought it was cool.
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To own a hotel. I've never… had any of my investors in multifamily say, it's like, wow, you know, it's…
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It's so cool. It's so cool. Yeah.
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You know, it's… they… they want to know what's the pref, what's the return, it's… it's more… you know… And they're like, wow, you own hotels? I didn't even know individuals could own hotels. And I'm like, well, yeah.
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We do.
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And… you know, I was thinking about investing in multifamily, but it'd just be so cool to tell my friends that I own a hotel, you know? So it… I'd listen to those things. And that's what you have to do, ladies and gentlemen, is shut up. They will tell you exactly what they want.
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And then you, all of a sudden, yeah, wouldn't it be cool?
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You know, then you… You can sit and have a drink on the, you know, in the bar at the hotel that you own, and then you start playing on it.
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So, that was very different than, Spain as a whole other… I actually coined… you want me to go into that, or is that later?
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Yeah, definitely. Yeah, let it rinse.
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Then I got into investing, raising capital for Spain, and I had never heard this term. I… when you listen to people.
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They… and I talk about castles and estates and medieval, you know, these hotels are straight out of Game of Thrones, you know, those types of things.
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And it got to the point where… So what does it take for me to actually stay there?
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How long can I stay there? Do I get to stay there?
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I've never had anyone tell me, say, well, I can't wait to actually stay at the Quality Inn in Topeka, Kansas.
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Right, right, right, right.
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No one ever said that.
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Hmm.
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Now, all of a sudden, they're, like, going… It's an experience, so I started listening, and I'm like, you know what? I need to change my paperwork, I need to change my marketing direction.
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And I… created this, a lifestyle investment.
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And all of my marketing was… Can you imagine sitting with a glass of Rioja On the balcony of your own castle, overlooking 132 acres of land that you own.
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You know, it was more this storybook.
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So you change the way that you market.
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And present these to investors. And, you know, getting to the point where, did you know that the… Airfare now.
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on your European vacations can be tax deductible, because you are now visiting an asset.
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So, I had to switch… This to a whole lifestyle experience.
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platform instead of, you know, a Quality Inn or a Comfort Inn, it was more… It's this, this, this… Yeah. You're going on a 5 to 7-year hold.
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where the investments in Spain, a lot of the investors are like, I don't want you to sell… Because I want to go… I want to be able to do this, and I want you to buy several of them, so it was different. And then, I got to thinking, ladies and gentlemen, it's another thing you can do, is Wow, people are asking me, like, what does it take for them to stay there?
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So I've created tiers of investments.
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Oh.
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With perks.
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Some bennies in there.
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So, some very… and so it's like, okay, if you give me $100,000, you get a discount.
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You give me $250,000, you get 2 weeks. You know, you give them different tiers to now encourage them You know, why should I put in $250,000? Why should I put in half a million?
00:20:00.849 --> 00:20:01.430
Yeah.
00:20:01.539 --> 00:20:17.028
Not all benefits, we call them bennies, not all benefits have to be even a financial thing, you know, like… I mean, I've seen, like, that… it's so smart, it is, you know, because if they're asking those questions, like, hey, could I stay there, should I do this, like…
00:20:17.029 --> 00:20:17.460
Yeah.
00:20:17.460 --> 00:20:29.099
They're telling you their motivation and the things that, you know, like, when they're talking to their friend, they go, yeah, I have 1,500 doors in multifamily. That's awesome, super impressive. I own a castle in Spain.
00:20:29.369 --> 00:20:35.669
is, like, it blows our mind, like, so, like, the conversations, hey, yeah, I'm thinking about buying a castle in Spain.
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:53.979
It… it just… it's a different thing that most people will never hear or even think of. And then the benefits, they don't always have to be financial. Hey, would you like your name etched on the wall? The wall that's been here for… thousands of years, would you like your name on it, right? Or 600-800 years, however long.
00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:55.930
600-800 years.
00:20:55.930 --> 00:20:56.999
Yeah, a lot.
00:20:57.140 --> 00:20:59.019
More than me, right?
00:20:59.019 --> 00:21:01.440
Older than the United States.
00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:18.180
Yeah, super cool. So I… there's so many things that I want to dig into, but I've got to be smart about our time, because I think you and I could geek out on, you know, marketing strategies and those kinds of things, and the mindset of investors. Let's talk about this.
00:21:18.190 --> 00:21:34.569
When it comes to LP mindset, right, we started to brush on this when it comes to different asset classes. I mean, this class is all I'm thinking about is preferred returns, or when do I get my distribution check, or whatever, or the exit. You jump to another, more of an exotic asset class.
00:21:34.710 --> 00:21:46.740
and the mindset is different of the LPs. Talk to us about how you kind of, like, learn that, and how can one get better at learning LPs' motivations?
00:21:48.299 --> 00:22:12.089
Yeah, you know, that's a great question that you learn through errors, mistakes, and… Number one, people, if you're brand new in investing and being a GP, make your waterfalls extremely simple. I have a lot of experience, and I still make them simple.
00:22:13.049 --> 00:22:16.039
If you have more than two tiers.
00:22:16.529 --> 00:22:22.069
To me, now what are you trying to do? You're trying to get more money. Now you're just trying to confuse people.
00:22:22.529 --> 00:22:29.449
So, the strategies that I've learned, especially with people that are more experienced.
00:22:29.990 --> 00:22:32.559
Is… keep it simple.
00:22:34.019 --> 00:22:38.249
Make it very precise and clear.
00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:41.990
On how they are going to get their money.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:43.939
Is there a pref?
00:22:44.230 --> 00:22:53.390
Is there a pref? Is there a split? Is there a catch-up? It should be extremely simple, extremely well-planned.
00:22:53.500 --> 00:23:05.509
And where you can explain everything. If you have 4 different tiers, you know, if the IRR hits 15%, then it flips, and then, you know, in this month it does this, and you have all these different waterfall structures.
00:23:05.720 --> 00:23:08.628
On how it flips, and you can't even explain it.
00:23:09.109 --> 00:23:19.069
And they can't understand it. It's not gonna work. The only people you're going to get are people that just don't understand it. You know, they just… you're selling something.
00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:38.219
Even now, with even the boutiques, because boutiques are a very smaller structure, you know, we're talking $500,000 gross on a purchase price of 1.5 to 1.8. They're smaller things. This isn't a 100-unit hotel.
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:44.200
So, I keep the distributions very, very simple. I don't do a pref.
00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:51.160
I don't do a waterfall. I do an 80-20 split. That's it.
00:23:52.099 --> 00:24:00.980
And so they know exactly… because, you know, we're dealing with smaller distributions.
00:24:03.829 --> 00:24:06.818
You know, I'm giving you 20, 30 thousand here and there.
00:24:06.950 --> 00:24:14.388
So… Number one is, if it's a small boutique or a small multifamily, and you do a pref.
00:24:15.369 --> 00:24:18.549
The GP will never see the money. They'll never see any money.
00:24:19.710 --> 00:24:23.849
Until the sale, because you're just always giving this pref out.
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:25.709
And then return of capital.
00:24:25.940 --> 00:24:35.049
So, on smaller deals, I like to just… it's an 80-20 split, then at sale, if there's any capital left over, you get that first, and then there's a split.
00:24:35.369 --> 00:24:39.640
It's extremely simple, everyone knows exactly what they're getting into.
00:24:42.430 --> 00:24:50.059
But if you're dealing with the, you know, $10 million, $20 million property, then you can have a pref return.
00:24:50.059 --> 00:24:50.839
Complexity.
00:24:51.210 --> 00:24:56.409
You can have more complexity, because now we're… you're grossing $3 million, you know, $4 million a year.
00:24:57.329 --> 00:25:09.898
And there's room to have more complexity. Yeah. But then, on my larger ones, I'll do a pref return. I don't even do a catch-up. I do a pref return, and then a 75-25.
00:25:10.829 --> 00:25:12.130
I keep it simple.
00:25:13.630 --> 00:25:27.778
Yeah, I think when it comes to… Complexity is okay, there's complex deals, and that's okay, but it takes longer time to explain, and it takes longer time for the brain to accept it, receive it, and say yes to it.
00:25:27.890 --> 00:25:33.819
Complexity just takes more time and more… I call them micro-yeses along the way.
00:25:33.819 --> 00:25:34.150
Hmm.
00:25:34.150 --> 00:25:53.679
Complexity adds more micro-yeses. Confusion at any point destroys conversion, right? So as we're going through this, man, I appreciate that, you know, you painting the picture there. Let's do this, Mike, as we're walking through, one more shout-out to your podcast, and where can people go to, you know, dig into your podcast a little bit more?
00:25:54.539 --> 00:25:55.969
Yeah, it's called The Richer Geek.
00:25:56.119 --> 00:25:58.759
RicherGeek.com.
00:25:59.019 --> 00:26:08.009
The website's gatewayPE.com, as in private equity. And then you can reach the podcast, you know, you can… what we do.
00:26:08.339 --> 00:26:08.779
Yep.
00:26:08.779 --> 00:26:11.700
Gateway Private Equity is the company.
00:26:11.700 --> 00:26:26.979
Cool. There's probably one question that you love asking your guest, that you kind of always go to. What's that question that you just… you find it's super helpful as a podcaster? Teach me, man. What's a good question I should ask you?
00:26:27.809 --> 00:26:37.480
Yeah, what was the… turning point, and, well, I should say the number one. What is your why?
00:26:38.190 --> 00:26:39.219
That's a good one.
00:26:39.559 --> 00:26:48.108
And a lot of people… You know, why do you want to get into investing? Why do you want to get into real estate investing? Why do you want to do this?
00:26:48.619 --> 00:26:51.930
And until you actually understand your why.
00:26:52.990 --> 00:26:55.019
Why will you be successful?
00:26:58.380 --> 00:26:59.469
That's good, man.
00:27:00.089 --> 00:27:01.589
Understand your why.
00:27:02.009 --> 00:27:17.419
I like, you know, we've heard the Simon Sinek, you know, start with why, folks, but understanding your why, like, understanding… Understanding. I like that, man, because that takes it to a different level of not just asking, asking, asking, but it's like, cool, why do I want this?
00:27:17.819 --> 00:27:20.359
What is it in me that wants this?
00:27:20.940 --> 00:27:23.190
Whatever. I like that. That's a good one.
00:27:23.190 --> 00:27:26.970
And then put it on… my why is over my desk.
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:35.130
That I printed out 20-some years ago on a piece of… I took a… Magic marker and a printer sheet of paper.
00:27:35.470 --> 00:27:36.220
Nice.
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:42.558
It's kind of curled up now, but it's that original piece of paper that I…
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:43.338
Read it to us.
00:27:43.339 --> 00:27:44.089
Some years ago.
00:27:44.359 --> 00:27:51.230
Yeah, it says… My why. Build a life I don't need a vacation from.
00:27:52.710 --> 00:27:53.659
I like that, man.
00:27:54.480 --> 00:28:04.430
And Mike, for people who are looking to connect with you, geek out, maybe talk guitars, American flags, firearms, castles in Spain, where can people go to connect with you?
00:28:05.180 --> 00:28:13.449
I am extremely active on LinkedIn. It's under Michael Stohler. I post you know, every day, 3 times a week, it's… I'm very, very active.
00:28:13.609 --> 00:28:17.048
And then our website, gatewayPE.com.
00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:35.130
Cool. Ladies and gentlemen, as always, reach out to our guests, say thanks for being on the show, for giving their time and energy to help inspire, help educate, and just maybe even connect with you guys to do a deal. Now, for fellow podcasters who come on the show, special shout-out to the fellow podcasters.
00:28:35.130 --> 00:28:45.900
Please, ladies and gentlemen, go over to the podcast, give a raving listen and a raving review, and then we'll talk to you all on the next episode of the Investor Relations Podcast. Cheers, guys.
